Discussion => Kingdom => Topic started by: Tyr on August 01, 2021, 10:52:33 am

Title: Chapter 687
Post by: Tyr on August 01, 2021, 10:52:33 am
First pointing out that there's really no reason for Rei to be holding tea here...

EXCEPT, for the steam to show which way the wind is blowing-

Second, now that Zhao is making big moves, even though it looks like Kanki's already lost, now he has room to do Kanki stuff.

Notice, he's disappeared from the battlefield... if your his opponent, that's a terrible sign.  He's on the move.

Here's the map:

His camp location allows him the cover of forest.  He can, under cover of forest, head a strike force and move to his left, cross the river, maybe next to the cliffs Shin's fighting on, and be in position to strike the base camp.

If Shin wraps up the battle on the left in time, they can strike at base together, while Zhao is busy mopping up the rest of Kanki's forces.

I'm not sure he's trying that, but I bet he's trying something.  I don't think Kanki just ran.
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: JAC on August 01, 2021, 01:17:59 pm
Agree, the opening panel does pose the question, “Is the clue to turning the tide in the left, or right?”, and Zhao chasing after Kan Ki just opens the door for lurking prospects. I think it’s part carelessness and poor reasoning yet the reality of the truth is that Zhao has allowed their hate for Kan Ki to cloud their judgement. Personally, if I were in charge of the Zhao, I wouldn’t chase after him I’d concentrate on reinforcing the right where Shin is and keep an eye on Ou Sen. This strategy makes more sense when you don’t know what your enemy is thinking and limits the potential for a disaster. I would also take the battleground which is vast into account to minimize the margin of error better to remain stationary and hold the line, besides, what if Kan Ki prepared a trap well in advance per Ou Sen's initial plan to take what they need.

Also, why is Kan Ki positioned here against Ko Chou and not someone else? From the very beginning the numbers showed a major imbalance, 240K against a mere 80K. This is a strategical disadvantage right from the get go so why is Kan Ki so aggressive and not a lil more reserved?
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: Pharoah_Meroe on August 02, 2021, 06:29:50 am
I completely agree JAC. Kanji knows they hate him. Remember how he noticed the level of violence increase soon after Sin killed General Keisha. He maybe using there hatred to draw them out or " thin them out" then crush them. It seems like Kanki  is setting up Shin and Ou Hon to move on the Zhoa headquarters from the left.

With that being said I am very worried about Shin. I thought the battle with him would be strength vs strength. Shin isn't a martial artist.
And the Zhoa commander basically said that EI could  not be taken. Can we say " Weakness ".

Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: god_of_kings on August 02, 2021, 07:32:58 pm
Well shin has experience fighting martial artists like kyokai and houken
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: JAC on August 02, 2021, 08:40:43 pm
Pharoah_Meroe that's right I think Shin is going to have a tough fight and hope that Kyou Kai can get up there and somehow help him.

Good point god_of_kings, there's that and he's come back from the dead. The one thing that might be to his advantage is that this fight isn't taking place while on horseback and if I remember correctly he fought Hou Ken this way.
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: Tyr on August 02, 2021, 09:13:18 pm
I'd like to take a second for Hara appreciation regarding this duel.

I remember saying/thinking that steamed bun guy's round Warhammer was too big to be swung with speed, and, shin had the weapon-speed advantage.

This is still true- instead of swinging his weapon with speed equivalent to shin's glaive, steamed bun (aka bao) guy is using his martial arts to quickly move his whole body... that way he doesn't have to move the round hammer much.  In other words, he's using his agility (martial arts) to counter his weapon's lack of dexterity.  nullifying shin's advantage, and, giving his weapon's might the edge in the duel.

...I have no idea how shin plans to have bihei help with this.  Maybe Shin's planning to pick him up and throw him at bao-dude's feet
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: Jeorgie on August 03, 2021, 11:33:00 pm
Yeah…that kinda looks like the plan, obviously harkening back to ouki’s first battle, the best way to make a hole in your opponents line is to make them create one themselves. From those battlefield pics there’s definitely a lot of space between the Zhou’s left, centre and hq armies which leads me to believe Kanki is in those gaps.

I can also see a reversal of Kochou’s fate having tortured Raido, that Kanki is gonna take him and place him back on top of those “deathtrap” cliffs on the right and just watch the surviving Zhou armies to just have to throw themselves into them once Shin and Ouhon capture them. So it mirrors that whole father son scene earlier with Raido.
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: JAC on August 04, 2021, 06:26:12 pm
If Kan Ki and Rai Do truly have a long past together, which is the vibe I get, then I expect him to take revenge. On the other hand, Kan Ki has always been the I don’t give a damn about anyone or anything type of guy. The deserters, well, that’s a different story, they deserve a worse fate. This whole thing is a big mess and sends the wrong signal, I just can’t see how going awol was ever part of the plan. They left the commanding officers vulnerable. I know that this army was pulled together by scum and only scum tend to join (with some exceptions of course) and I get this, but they represent Qin. This is a new era with a new King at the helm.  :)
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: Tyr on August 04, 2021, 09:54:01 pm
Agreed... I don't know if Qin can un-grant someone the title of 'great general,' but, they're gonna want to.  Even if Kanki wins, this was terrible for Qin.

Gyouko Hyou's functionally ruined, Qin's losses under Kanki are probably 10-15,000 at least, just on his field, in a war where they're focus has been managing resources, because, they have to.   

Even if Kanki somehow manages to take a general's head, even if he takes the HQ, with his Army basically leaving the field... I wonder how Qin's position on this field is much improved by his future 'victory.'  for them to really have won, Qin would have to be able to reform and secure that ground faster than Zhao, who has more troops in better morale and better formation (although spread to chase down bandits)

Raido was loyal to the end.  But knowing how this battle went, will his other commanders really want to keep fighting in the next hard fight?  Or will they want to run, knowing that Kanki really is ok with hanging them out to dry?

Even if he wins, he still kinda lost.  And probably badly.  At this point I am wondering whether Kanki is even in the army after this. 
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: Jeorgie on August 06, 2021, 05:42:04 am
Well we already know that not only does he does take Ko Chou's head is that he also exterminates his army too....

I mean what better way than getting the whole Ko Chou army to dive head first into that death trap of cliff face than say idk? Grabbing Ko Chou from the HQ and just torturing him infront of his whole army while on those cliffs....

No time to think of strategy, driven to the brim by emotion and desperate to get to their general, i assume that was actually never Kanki's plan, and his plan was always to make the Zhao army think their winning and spread out across the whole field and thus giving Kanki the gap to deliver the killing blow...but once he gets to Ko Chou sees the extent that Raido has been tortured; and it just happens the Shin has won his's like light bulb moment***
Title: Re: Chapter 687
Post by: Tyr on August 06, 2021, 02:31:11 pm
Oh, can we know?  The Shiji records tend not to go into that much detail... and the only one who's predictions so far are never wrong is KyouKai.

She's a bit less optimistic
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