Author Topic: Unreality of Mangas  (Read 7702 times)

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G4m3r

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Unreality of Mangas
« on: February 18, 2012, 11:49:36 am »
I love reading Mangas(and that many of them) but in some of the Mangas i found something.
There is a problem that certain Mangas have: they are Unrealistic
Now before anybody shouts it has to be so in Mangas, i don't mean Mangas like e.g Naruto, Magi etc. with magic or supernatural powers or something...
What i mean is in some Mangas - romance or so;in (almost) EVERY Manga there is a romance or love story- there is one guy and around 5 girls or more, who all want that one guy to be hers and additionally would do everything for him. In my opinion it would be more realistic/understandable for some of us it would be the opposite case.

like i said it this is my personal opinion, you can/should/must ;D discuss with me about that(and that's exactly why i opened this topic ;))

vargs

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 01:00:52 pm »
Lmao, this is an interesting topic that you've brought up. xD I've definitely noticed it before, yep.

Here's my take on it: It's fiction, so in the case manga/anime, the sky's the limit there. Since it's made-up, make-believe, a fantasy, then why not make it a satisfactory one? There are certainly people out there who wish to be as attractive and popular as some guy in a series with a harem or a girl in a series with a reverse-harem .... or, if you swing the other way or both ways or you're interested in something else, lmao... idk. Point is, it's a fantasy and everyone is allowed to have their fantasy if they want, lmao.

So yeah, idk. Some people don't mind suspending their beliefs for sec just to indulge their fantasies, lol.

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G4m3r

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2012, 02:01:55 am »
yeah of course everyone is allowed to do a manga, a story with their fantasy the way they want it, but not in amost every manga. They make a story with a hero who has things, skills or just good-looks which the maker of the story, the mangaka, doesn't have(therefore you can conclude that most mangaka are males). What i meant to say is that the mangakas should try something new out, not just do something which has been done a couple of times.
And to your "question" ;):don't worry everything's alright with me, means I'm not gay or something  ;D

vargs

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2012, 06:39:07 pm »
Lol, yeah, I'll admit that I'm not too big a fan of any sort of unrealistic romance situation. xD There are actually many series out there that probably could fit that definition. They might be hard to find though. But yeah, I do agree that I'd also love to see manga-kas try something new.  :)

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mayo13

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2012, 02:41:00 am »
heh~ so true though. Some mangas get boring sometimes because you know what's going to happen or who is going to end up with who.
eg. Nerdy, plain girl ends up with super hot, smart guy <--- this is the reason why I stopped ( kind of ) reading romance, comedy mangas and focused more on action and horror XD
I wish they would have some new ideas
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G4m3r

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2012, 04:25:18 am »
yeah That's what I'm talking about. It would be best if they do something new and not the same old boring plots like almost everybody uses them...

SadPanda

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 04:42:36 am »
Deviation from the norms also means risk of not being critically acclaimed :/

Mangaka usually play around with archetypes nowadays, because it's an easy way to get popular. If you put a good enough twist on a typical idea, then people think it's quite "original" and you get popular XD

If manga were more realistic, I wouldn't really read it. It's the fact that manga is so unnatural that appeals to me :/ If I wanted something realistic, I'd just live my daily life. I'm sure there are quite a lot of manga that try to be as realistic as possible. I think manga is an escape from reality for a lot of people. That's just my opinion, though. For people who think that way, a realistic manga would essentially have no purpose. Why not just read a biography? That's pretty darn realistic.

All I'm saying is that it's difficult to create something entirely new. Just look at every other type of media geared towards entertainment, such as movies and books. Do they all not contain the same basic formula? I prefer my manga to be unrealistic anyway.

If you think some manga have "old, boring plots," then don't read them :)
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vargs

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 04:52:57 am »
Haha, yep, that's pretty much it! Panda's probably got it right about a manga series needing to have certain elements in order to appeal to a bigger crowd of people. Many people just happen to find certain aspects of a series very appealing, and those aspects might certainly be unrealistic, but that's the appeal.

Then again, there are many different types of people who are interested in many different types of things. So what's interesting to me might not be interesting to you, for example. I think many manga-ka have to work hard to sell their ideas, and in order to do that, they need to appeal to as large a crowd of people as possible, so yeah, generally speaking, there will probably be a bunch of manga using the same sorts of ideas that worked in previous manga series, just to make sure that that series will bring in the big bucks.

But yeah, there are definitely people experimenting with things, though! They're probably harder to find, but they're definitely there! Even if you can't create an entirely new concept, you can still put a different spin on them. That's why I tend to like series that deconstruct a certain concept, cliche, or stereotype. It sets me up for a certain, expected scenario, then springs a surprise.

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G4m3r

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 06:31:44 am »
ok maybe I formulated the name of the topic wrong :P
yeah the mangakas sure have to sell their work to make a living or earn the "big bucks" ;)
and of course a Manga should have fantasy in it and if i was a mangaka i would probably use a plot that made big sucess before (for my first manga) just to appeal to as many people as possible.
but that becomes boring if every managaka does it this way and doesn't try something new or experiments with the common used plots
and I really like stories wih fantasy in it so don't take it the wrong way ;D

vargs

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 06:43:46 am »
Nah, this is a discussion, after all! We're all just bringing up observations to discuss! It's all good. :)

Anyway, are there any series that you've found that you felt were unique? Examples! Maybe we could get some discussion going there and share a few things.


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Mizuho

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 12:22:41 pm »
It's the same as in the movies basically. There are formulaic ways to write a script and basically if we put together every single successful film franchise or manga franchise and compare them, we will find they share tons of things in common.

Lets take Dragon Ball for example, many have said that it borrowed ideas from the Fist of the North Star manga and what not, but let's talk about Dragon Ball as a starting point, because if we look at it closely, Dragon Ball was a worldwide phenomenon. Not many other series, at a time when the internet wasn't around, got that much of attention. And if we take Dragon Ball and compare Naruto or Bleach or even One Piece to it, we can find several similarities, like The Hyperbolic Time Chamber in Dragon Ball and Bleach's own version of it that Ichigo used to learn the Restuga Tenshou in the "Precipice World" in which he went to by going into deep concentration, 2000 hours of training were equivalent to an hour in the real world. We can also take Naruto's Super Great Ball Rasengan, it is a very similar concept to that of the Spirit Bomb in Dragon Ball Z. Surely, by looking at those kinds of things we know that some "ideas" are more marketable than others and for this reason, most shounen mangas have very stereotypical characters, all sharing similarities with "Goku", "Naruto", "Luffy", "Ichigo", they are always the same kind of characters.

Like in the 80's action movies where you had the one liners, the heroic guy full of muscles kicking butt for love and country. It was a formula that worked for a very long time and mostly still does. They're money making idea buckets. All you gotta do, is take that idea, shape it up to your own preference, and incorporate it. You will notice 95% of the most popular series are based in a formula long before established. They are safe bets. That's why most mangaka who want to make it big try hard to do this kind of stuff first, regardless of the fact that they may love to do other genres. And sometimes, after the success, they go to do what they wanted to do since the beginning and flop miserably or maintain their success for a bit longer on reputation alone.

If I had been japanese, I'd probably be writing shoujo mostly... because I like romance, fantasy and sci-fi. But in my own personal opinion, I share Panda's point of view. I like the stories that use "Suspension of disbelief" to make you fantasize a world beyond your own. I don't need to look at realistic work mainly because the world is F'ed up already that I can see it everyday. If I want a reality check I will read the newspaper... I'll find loads of realism there. I believe that manga and anime do what the Movies have stopped doing, giving a ray of sunshine, pushing the boundaries of imagination and making people happy to be part of a world in a 25 minute visit, and wishing to go back there for 25 more minutes.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 12:27:33 pm by MaverickZero »

vargs

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 12:41:11 pm »
Quote
Lets take Dragon Ball for example, many have said that it borrowed ideas from the Fist of the North Star manga and what not, but let's talk about Dragon Ball as a starting point, because if we look at it closely, Dragon Ball was a worldwide phenomenon...

Yep! A lot of shounen titles follow this sort of formula because many of the themes and cliches in shounen manga are things that are usually easily understood by the audience and also easily related to. And actually, even beyond similarities to Fist of the North Star, Dragon Ball is based closely on the at least 500-year-old ancient Chinese novel, Journey to the West. So yeah, these formulas and concepts have been around and have worked for a really, really long time.

Quote
If I had been japanese, I'd probably be writing shoujo mostly... because I like romance, fantasy and sci-fi. But in my own personal opinion, I share Panda's point of view. I like the stories that use "Suspension of disbelief" to make you fantasize a world beyond your own. I don't need to look at realistic work mainly because the world is F'ed up already that I can see it everyday. If I want a reality check I will read the newspaper... I'll find loads of realism there. I believe that manga and anime do what the Movies have stopped doing, giving a ray of sunshine, pushing the boundaries of imagination and making people happy to be part of a world in a 25 minute visit, and wishing to go back there for 25 more minutes.

Haha, that's a great way of putting it! I think we all find anime/manga appealing because of the fantasy, fictional element in some sort of way. Of course, it can be a little different for all of us. xD For me, for example, I actually find interest in a great variety of genres because I like examining and relating to the common themes that can be found in them. Because, despite being fictional, there are certain realistic elements that all stories are built around -- concepts like love, friendship, family, loyalty, things like that. It's interesting how these same themes can be expressed and explored in so many different ways; even the negative themes, the ones that people would rather not spend too much time delving into, can be very interesting studies of the way human minds can work. I love fantasy and all the appeal that fictional worlds can give me, but I also find that there are some lessons that can be learned and applied to certain aspects in life from fiction. The more you know, really. Human imagination is pretty interesting.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 01:14:57 pm by vargs »

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Mizuho

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2012, 01:01:06 pm »
Yep! A lot of shounen titles follow this sort of formula because many of the themes and cliches in shounen manga are things that are usually easily understood by the audience and also easily related to. And actually, even beyond similarities to Fist of the North Star, Dragon Ball is based closely on the at least 500-year-old ancient Chinese novel, Journey to the West. So yeah, these formulas and concepts have been around and have worked for a really, really long time.

Exactly, and yeah, I knew about Journey to the West because well... at the time when Dragon Ball came out, there were many books magazines and whatnot talking about how Akira Toriyama adapted Journey to the West into Dragon Ball.

Haha, that's a great way of putting it! I think we all find anime/manga appealing because of the fantasy, fictional element in some sort of way. Of course, it can be a little different for all of us. xD For me, for example, I actually find interest in a great variety of genres because I like examining and relating to the common themes that can be found in them. Because, despite being fictional, there are certain realistic elements that all stories are built around -- concepts like love, friendship, family, loyalty, things like that. It's interesting how these same themes can be expressed and explored in so many different ways; even the negative themes, the ones that people would rather not spend too much time delving into, can be very interesting studies of the way human minds can work. I love fantasy and all the appeal that fictional worlds can give me, but I also find that there are some lessons that can be learned and applied to certain aspects in life from fiction. The more you know, really. Human imagination is pretty interesting.

Yes of course, don't get me wrong, there are lessons to be learned from more serious work. But my point is that it doesn't necessarily have to be dark and gritty to get a point across.

SadPanda

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2012, 03:08:38 pm »
I think one of the most unoriginal manga I've ever read is Shaman King. I'm pretty sure most of you have read it already. I swear, the mangaka just took a lot of popular battle manga and compiled it into the manga >.>


Anyway, is it possible to really achieve originality? I think people are influenced so much by popular culture that it's practically impossible to be original. One can deceive people to think that you're original, but under the layers of deception lies a  typical plot that has been used repeatedly. Even if it's not the mangaka's intentions to copy a certain idea, he still might be doing it.
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vargs

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Re: Unreality of Mangas
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2012, 04:44:35 pm »
@MaverickZero: Just expressing my take and personal interest! I think what you said put it just fine! I was just adding my own example in! xD

@SadPanda: Lol, Shaman King. I never read or saw much of it, since I was a kid back when it was being shown on TV (in English...) and when I finally got into actual anime fandom, it was Inuyasha I was taken with. xD So I wouldn't know, lol. A lot of shounen manga, especially some of the older ones, seem pretty generic and formulaic, I think though? Recently, manga-ka have started experimenting with the genre more, which I find really refreshing, but yeah, I wouldn't be surprised that some of the older manga series might feel really cliched and boring because of it. I don't know, personal opinion or something. xD Feel free to correct me or tell me otherwise!

As for achieving actual, true originality... probably not! I think so, anyway. But I do think that it's possible to create a unique experience in a series by combining several different elements that are well-known in different, unexpected ways. So, say maybe a manga-ka starts a series that seems to be in a shounen genre type, but then adds elements of something else into it, something that a reader might not have expected -- I think something like that would be great for a unique experience. It might not be a completely original experience, since there might be elements you recognize from other series, but it would have been unexpected enough that it surprises  you and draws you in.

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